tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5929885462293344093.post3733491255663690919..comments2024-03-22T13:08:07.977-07:00Comments on Margo Kelly: Do RULES really exist?Margo Kellyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13474612650116392270noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5929885462293344093.post-90590828102384788542011-12-20T12:38:46.756-08:002011-12-20T12:38:46.756-08:00This is an interesting re-post, because yes, writi...This is an interesting re-post, because yes, writing should be all nice & pretty before sending it on, BUT an agent/publisher certainly isn't going to reject a fantastic story for things that can easily be cleaned up in editing. <br /><br />By the way, I'm late in catching up on DeJa Vu and see that post just above this one - CONGRATULATIONS!!! That is so exciting and awesome. Bask in it! :)Nicki Elsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11412032684225126973noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5929885462293344093.post-51075238634725000752011-12-19T12:11:20.474-08:002011-12-19T12:11:20.474-08:00Oh my gosh, now I am going to notice this in every...Oh my gosh, now I am going to notice this in every book I read! LOL. When I took Creative Writing in college, we had to look for the same thing in our own writing and change it. We were taught to highlight every 'was' and so on. I still do that when I revise and it's draining!<br />Great post and it's nice to meet you!Juliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07850344847209933016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5929885462293344093.post-16573519657110434532011-12-19T11:46:21.993-08:002011-12-19T11:46:21.993-08:00well, I think you should try to write the stronges...well, I think you should try to write the strongest you can, and "be" verbs tend to be passive. But it depends on the work, right? It could be that you're writing about a passive character who always has stuff happening to him/her... I don't know. Language is a funny thing~ :o) <3LTMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05239077455322030275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5929885462293344093.post-29543826564855166222011-12-19T11:37:37.543-08:002011-12-19T11:37:37.543-08:00The word "rules" automatically makes me ...The word "rules" automatically makes me bristle! I don't pay attention to any of them. I see them more as guidelines. And I've found that I don't really break many even when I'm not paying attention anyway. It is odd how many books out there didn't follow "the rules." I'm not really sure who created them or why they even exist. Congrats on your agent!!!!Jennie Baileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02088195986628533511noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5929885462293344093.post-54009999164084072962011-12-19T04:35:00.218-08:002011-12-19T04:35:00.218-08:00Hi Margo, nice to meet you.
FIRST - don't you...Hi Margo, nice to meet you.<br /><br />FIRST - don't you ever stop dancing about that agent. You go girl, that is awesome.<br /><br />SECOND - Rules. Like the 'code' they are more like guidelines anyway and made to be broken/rewritten/distorted. Sorry. I'm a pirate at heart. Who writes these rules anyway? My fourth grade English teacher or the current best selling novelist. Isn't it more important who breaks these rules. The writer with an awesome voice and a well crafted story twining around an incredibly intricate plot. Who know that just might be you or hopefully me.farawayeyeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17578277501054242356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5929885462293344093.post-28232011730028940962011-12-18T11:09:53.058-08:002011-12-18T11:09:53.058-08:00I don't think Ive read a bestseller that DIDN&...I don't think Ive read a bestseller that DIDN'T break the rules. I think we have to know the rules and then know how to break them!!PK HREZOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11650153097981426833noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5929885462293344093.post-63811069850092635502011-12-18T09:36:45.566-08:002011-12-18T09:36:45.566-08:00totally agree w/frustration at "rules"
i...totally agree w/frustration at "rules"<br />i think overall flow '& voice are the overriding factors.<br /><br />great replay & congrats on beating rules & getting an agent!Tara Tylerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07587802105993889515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5929885462293344093.post-74678097564542777702011-12-17T17:12:30.026-08:002011-12-17T17:12:30.026-08:00I hate all the rules except the one Botanist quote...I hate all the rules except the one Botanist quoted. If I bore a reader, I've failed. <br /><br />I'm baffled by the strong opinion that you must not edit while creating a draft. I'm breaking that one and it's working for me. <br /><br />xoRobynRawknrobyn.blogspot.comhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15997241410192066577noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5929885462293344093.post-86190989675943467912011-12-17T15:30:34.034-08:002011-12-17T15:30:34.034-08:00The one that say you mustn't use more than two...The one that say you mustn't use more than two (I even heard one) adverbs per page. O_o<br /><br />Seriously, if the best way to write the dang the scene means I have more than two per page, I'm going to do it. Ugh!Donna K. Weaverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15763832177263927311noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5929885462293344093.post-91886325669232993442011-12-17T13:08:51.789-08:002011-12-17T13:08:51.789-08:00I agree with many of the comments here. The "...I agree with many of the comments here. The "rules" are there for a reason, but they are best treated as guidelines that will help steer you in a good direction. You should know why the rules exist, so you can choose wisely when to break them.<br /><br />In the end, though, good writing comes in many forms and may follow or break the rules. The only solid rule I've ever come across is "don't bore your reader."Botanisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12098709722475364465noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5929885462293344093.post-74606475474435392762011-12-17T10:22:16.143-08:002011-12-17T10:22:16.143-08:00I think the rules exist for a reason, but I think ...I think the rules exist for a reason, but I think they're more appropriately thought of as guidelines. They're there because it's so easy to abuse adverbs and "to be" verbs, to let backstory kill your pacing, etc. However, there are always famous examples of rule-breakers, so we know it CAN be done. Great re-post, Margo, lovely to meet you, and HUGE CONGRATS ON SIGNING WITH AN AGENT!!!!!Sarahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06636585111057799728noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5929885462293344093.post-41557363263619952922011-12-17T09:38:10.675-08:002011-12-17T09:38:10.675-08:00The rules regarding backstory have always irritate...The rules regarding backstory have always irritated me. Yes, double standards do exist!<br /><br />Excellent re-post, and CONGRATS on the agent news!! :)DL Hammonshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02007260062331783715noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5929885462293344093.post-56017262612350966402011-12-17T05:25:31.212-08:002011-12-17T05:25:31.212-08:00This was a really interesting post - the trouble i...This was a really interesting post - the trouble is the so-called 'rules' change and contradict each other. I remember reading that 'said' is a 'horrible little word' and should be avoided at all costs. So in my early writing, my characters exclaimed, snorted, shouted, grinned, responded, etc. Now we're told 'said' is actually 'invisible' and any other word for 'said' is intrusive! I agree with many others here that ultimately it's a case of obeying the rules if they make sense but ultimately doing what you feel works best for your story.<br /><br />Thanks for the links to the top ten mistakes by the way, off to check them out!Hywela Lynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13789711554354184386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5929885462293344093.post-52085062210038363142011-12-16T23:35:53.274-08:002011-12-16T23:35:53.274-08:00Thanks for the re-post, and for the link to the to...Thanks for the re-post, and for the link to the top 10 mistakes. I agree with Nancy: these are more guidelines than rules. Follow them when you can, but when your sentence goes against these guidelines but feels "right", then by all means forget about it! <br /><br />Glad I re-discovered your blog through the Deja Vu Blogfest!J.C. Martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01567971311643106302noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5929885462293344093.post-66581667857018103852011-12-16T23:25:07.706-08:002011-12-16T23:25:07.706-08:00They aren't really rules, only guidelines. An...They aren't really rules, only guidelines. And if your story is compelling enough, all those to be verbs don't mean a thing. It's always story over writing.Nancy Thompsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05735642863696266005noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5929885462293344093.post-44368660636937165192011-12-16T22:48:05.389-08:002011-12-16T22:48:05.389-08:00The thought of all those rules beforehand is enoug...The thought of all those rules beforehand is enough to scare any novice writer!!<br />Nice to meet you *waves*MISHhttp://writer-in-transit.co.za/deja-vu-blogfest/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5929885462293344093.post-43690724317524096522011-12-16T18:06:45.032-08:002011-12-16T18:06:45.032-08:00Someone once told me that in writing, you learn al...Someone once told me that in writing, you learn all the rules. Once you become a good writer, you're allowed to break them all.<br /><br />Thanks so much for joining the Blogfest!Lydia Kanghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00484415427764822386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5929885462293344093.post-18874376676632625962011-12-16T16:52:34.113-08:002011-12-16T16:52:34.113-08:00Good post! I always think of rules as guidelines -...Good post! I always think of rules as guidelines - and I don't mind bending them or breaking them (as long as I'm sure I know what I'm doing!) :)Jemi Fraserhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02214408467456320167noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5929885462293344093.post-43689259411904526682011-12-16T16:40:29.425-08:002011-12-16T16:40:29.425-08:00Yes, agree. It gets a tad depressing if you start ...Yes, agree. It gets a tad depressing if you start adhering to rules that every book you read breaks, even the dreaded adverbs! I always think the best-selling authors must be laughing up their sleeves at the intense debut novelists sweating every 'ing' verb and 'ly' word while they do it with impunction. One of the latest books I read changed POV twice in one sentence while I'm told to only change POV every chapter at the most! Hmm. Maybe it was third person omnisicient!<br /><br />Thanks for visiting!<br /><br />DeniseDenise Covey https://www.blogger.com/profile/07106490051555233439noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5929885462293344093.post-66913361241351598982011-12-16T15:00:28.301-08:002011-12-16T15:00:28.301-08:00Oh my gosh, this is SUCH a pet peeve of mine!
Her...Oh my gosh, this is SUCH a pet peeve of mine!<br /><br />Here's my take on it:<br /><br />A few writers whose skills have not yet been polished into their final gem state query novels and get feedback from agents or editors on what went wrong. Said agents and editors focus on a few points of the writer's style which were not successfully employed.<br /><br />These points get translated as RULES for EVERYONE.<br /><br />They were never meant to be rules. They were well-meant suggestions on how some writers could improve their personal style.<br /><br />Phew, jumping off soap box now.Dianne K. Salernihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16459839567235304842noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5929885462293344093.post-1313361305476095072011-12-16T12:43:06.712-08:002011-12-16T12:43:06.712-08:00Congrats on getting an agent (saw that first), lov...Congrats on getting an agent (saw that first), love your post for the blogfest and totally agree that rules can be random.Jennifer Wilckhttp://www.jenniferwilck.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5929885462293344093.post-36821739362409127632011-12-16T12:28:21.575-08:002011-12-16T12:28:21.575-08:00Hi,
Rules? I've yet to read a best-selling bo...Hi,<br /><br />Rules? I've yet to read a best-selling book that hasn't/doesn't break every known rule all newbie writers' fear falling foul of... ;) I break'em as and when the fancy takes me! ;)<br /><br />best<br />FFrancine Howarthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02326542867876257042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5929885462293344093.post-58061897910806839262011-12-16T12:18:52.275-08:002011-12-16T12:18:52.275-08:00Wow. Proof that the rules are broken all the time....Wow. Proof that the rules are broken all the time.<br /><br />When well used, "to be" variations blend in and work just fine. Maybe a more appropriate rule is (oh look, an "is") "be aware when you're using to-be verbs and use them well"<br /><br />Great research!Margo Berendsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03476308235642890474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5929885462293344093.post-80279655202863639562011-12-16T10:22:10.445-08:002011-12-16T10:22:10.445-08:00Nice to meet you, Margo (I'm 158). I think con...Nice to meet you, Margo (I'm 158). I think concept and pacing are higher priority than sentence structure. So it's not that verbs don't matter, but that getting too hung up on that technicality can hamstring you creatively. By all means make your verbs strong in late drafts--just don't make it the be-all, end-all.Laurel Garverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03657218435228802535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5929885462293344093.post-88085263490847110262011-12-16T10:11:16.098-08:002011-12-16T10:11:16.098-08:00My writing is very basic yet my firt book sold ver...My writing is very basic yet my firt book sold very well. I think I follow my own rules in how I write.<br /><br />Thank you for your visit and lovely comment much appreciated.<br /><br />Yvonne.RHYTHM AND RHYMEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11386975261804630799noreply@blogger.com